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	<title>Comments on: Multi-site Church is Bad Missiology</title>
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	<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/</link>
	<description>Let&#039;s give the Commission back to the church.</description>
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		<title>By: stepchild</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-3737</link>
		<dc:creator>stepchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-3737</guid>
		<description>Darby,
That&#039;s exactly what I think. See my latest post, &lt;a href=&quot;http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2009/04/18/if-i-were-mark-driscoll/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;If I Were Mark Driscoll&lt;/a&gt;.
Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darby,<br />
That&#8217;s exactly what I think. See my latest post, <a href="http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2009/04/18/if-i-were-mark-driscoll/" rel="nofollow">If I Were Mark Driscoll</a>.<br />
Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Darby Livingston</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-3726</link>
		<dc:creator>Darby Livingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-3726</guid>
		<description>Do you think that multi-site churches are really the product of a blurring of pastoral and apostolic type roles? That is, I don&#039;t know any multi-site church whose lead pastor isn&#039;t larger than the church(es) they pastor - whether it is Chandler, Piper, Driscoll, and on and on. Could we have funnelled all the various leadership roles into the one role of &quot;pastor&quot;? And in so doing, constrained those men with huge vision and passion to a church that can&#039;t possibly express the breadth of their vision? And so we end up with multi-site venues? Just throwing it out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think that multi-site churches are really the product of a blurring of pastoral and apostolic type roles? That is, I don&#8217;t know any multi-site church whose lead pastor isn&#8217;t larger than the church(es) they pastor &#8211; whether it is Chandler, Piper, Driscoll, and on and on. Could we have funnelled all the various leadership roles into the one role of &#8220;pastor&#8221;? And in so doing, constrained those men with huge vision and passion to a church that can&#8217;t possibly express the breadth of their vision? And so we end up with multi-site venues? Just throwing it out there.</p>
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		<title>By: stepchild</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-3652</link>
		<dc:creator>stepchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-3652</guid>
		<description>Brian,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I&#039;m glad you felt the freedom to disagree! I know I have a tendency to state my case strongly, so I appreciate you interaction here. 

I won&#039;t assume that you read my blog with any regularity, but I&#039;d encourage you to read through my latest couple of posts about what I see as the counterintuitive nature of the church. It may better explain my perspective than what I&#039;ve written here.

I agree about the early church being organized at the city/region level. But I think we would probably disagree on the definition of &quot;pastor.&quot; I don&#039;t think the first-century Apostles were pastors/shepherds. I think they were just that- apostles. Their job was to initiate, offer initial instruction, point out trouble spots when they saw them, but then to move on. If mega-church pastors wanted to recast their roles and present themselves as apostles, that&#039;d be one thing... but multi-site churches aren&#039;t the same as city churches. City churches would be a fellowship of all the evangelicals (and maybe some non-evangelicals) in a city or region. A multi-site church only includes those churches that share its brand identity. 

I believe that the &quot;pitfalls&quot; I mention aren&#039;t just potential problems. I think it&#039;s clear that multi-site, video venue, megachurch, etc. are all solutions to problems that they actually generate. There aren&#039;t any leaders? That&#039;s because the impersonality and pastor-centrism of models actually prevent discipleship and leadership development. 

Your reasons for multi-site all seem to be pragmatic. (Let&#039;s borrow/copy what&#039;s &quot;working&quot; and modify it for maximum effect.) I don&#039;t think this is a good place to start, and I think the line of thinking will get us exactly what we&#039;ve got- a leadership vacuum, consumer Christianity, extractional discipleship, and program and event-driven ministries. . 

&quot;Pastors&quot; who are not shepherds are not pastors. They should be ministering our of their gifting. The problem is that most of the other gifts don&#039;t translate into a career. 

You&#039;re right- the church needs to work in cooperation. We can all learn from one another. But in God&#039;s Church, teachers aren&#039;t so scarce as to necessitate piping them in via satellite every Sunday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,<br />
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I&#8217;m glad you felt the freedom to disagree! I know I have a tendency to state my case strongly, so I appreciate you interaction here. </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t assume that you read my blog with any regularity, but I&#8217;d encourage you to read through my latest couple of posts about what I see as the counterintuitive nature of the church. It may better explain my perspective than what I&#8217;ve written here.</p>
<p>I agree about the early church being organized at the city/region level. But I think we would probably disagree on the definition of &#8220;pastor.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think the first-century Apostles were pastors/shepherds. I think they were just that- apostles. Their job was to initiate, offer initial instruction, point out trouble spots when they saw them, but then to move on. If mega-church pastors wanted to recast their roles and present themselves as apostles, that&#8217;d be one thing&#8230; but multi-site churches aren&#8217;t the same as city churches. City churches would be a fellowship of all the evangelicals (and maybe some non-evangelicals) in a city or region. A multi-site church only includes those churches that share its brand identity. </p>
<p>I believe that the &#8220;pitfalls&#8221; I mention aren&#8217;t just potential problems. I think it&#8217;s clear that multi-site, video venue, megachurch, etc. are all solutions to problems that they actually generate. There aren&#8217;t any leaders? That&#8217;s because the impersonality and pastor-centrism of models actually prevent discipleship and leadership development. </p>
<p>Your reasons for multi-site all seem to be pragmatic. (Let&#8217;s borrow/copy what&#8217;s &#8220;working&#8221; and modify it for maximum effect.) I don&#8217;t think this is a good place to start, and I think the line of thinking will get us exactly what we&#8217;ve got- a leadership vacuum, consumer Christianity, extractional discipleship, and program and event-driven ministries. . </p>
<p>&#8220;Pastors&#8221; who are not shepherds are not pastors. They should be ministering our of their gifting. The problem is that most of the other gifts don&#8217;t translate into a career. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right- the church needs to work in cooperation. We can all learn from one another. But in God&#8217;s Church, teachers aren&#8217;t so scarce as to necessitate piping them in via satellite every Sunday.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-3648</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-3648</guid>
		<description>I actually disagree wholeheartedly. I think the issues you raised are potential pitfalls, but certainly not necessary evils. In fact, I think the New Testament church was much more like this than most people realize. There were teaching teams of elders that traveled to various locations shepherding and teaching sound doctrine to multiple bodies under the same &quot;city church&quot;. 

The benefit of multi-site is this: good leadership is hard to find. Let&#039;s be frank. The church in America is dying. More churches die every year. There are, however, churches that continue to grow. Let&#039;s take what they are doing and multiply that, modifying it to fit the local audience. 

One final comment, many pastors do not have the gift of teaching. Many pastors are not shepherds. We succeed when we correctly minister as a team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually disagree wholeheartedly. I think the issues you raised are potential pitfalls, but certainly not necessary evils. In fact, I think the New Testament church was much more like this than most people realize. There were teaching teams of elders that traveled to various locations shepherding and teaching sound doctrine to multiple bodies under the same &#8220;city church&#8221;. </p>
<p>The benefit of multi-site is this: good leadership is hard to find. Let&#8217;s be frank. The church in America is dying. More churches die every year. There are, however, churches that continue to grow. Let&#8217;s take what they are doing and multiply that, modifying it to fit the local audience. </p>
<p>One final comment, many pastors do not have the gift of teaching. Many pastors are not shepherds. We succeed when we correctly minister as a team.</p>
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		<title>By: The Mom-and-Pop Church (Part 5)</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2300</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mom-and-Pop Church (Part 5)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2300</guid>
		<description>[...] planter, when he clearly saw Himself as one. I wonder why we focus on church at the local (or multi-site) level when Jesus almost always talked about it in terms of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] planter, when he clearly saw Himself as one. I wonder why we focus on church at the local (or multi-site) level when Jesus almost always talked about it in terms of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: stepchild</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2246</link>
		<dc:creator>stepchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2246</guid>
		<description>Cynthia,
Thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate the reminder that no two multi-site churches are exactly the same. I&#039;m also glad you&#039;re willing to talk about this without being defensive- though I didn&#039;t intend it, my post could be taken as an offense. 

I guess my question would be- why consider your church a &quot;campus&quot; of another church? What&#039;s the benefit there? You mention partnering in missions and other ministries, but you don&#039;t have to consider yourselves &quot;one church in two locations&quot; in order to do that, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia,<br />
Thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate the reminder that no two multi-site churches are exactly the same. I&#8217;m also glad you&#8217;re willing to talk about this without being defensive- though I didn&#8217;t intend it, my post could be taken as an offense. </p>
<p>I guess my question would be- why consider your church a &#8220;campus&#8221; of another church? What&#8217;s the benefit there? You mention partnering in missions and other ministries, but you don&#8217;t have to consider yourselves &#8220;one church in two locations&#8221; in order to do that, do you?</p>
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		<title>By: Cynthia Cullen</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2215</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia Cullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2215</guid>
		<description>As a Worship Arts Director on a multi-site campus, I think I can offer some interesting insight into this discussion.  It has been my experience that no multi-site is the same. Our model is very different from many I know.  Our Campus Pastor IS the pastor of our congregation...He teaches 8 to 10 times a year live on our campus.  He is a part of the teaching team (4 total) that do speak via video. Our Senior Pastor looks to our Campus Pastor to provide leadership, vision, and pastoral care to our campus...we are not here to push buttons. We are the only regional campus of the original campus so when we say &quot;We are one-church-two locations&quot; , we say it from the perspective of partnering to do outreach, global missions, small groups, leadership training and sharing resources. We reap the benefits of an existing church, but yet have the ability to tweak and make it work for our new congregation. We have leadership training on our campus with our leaders the same week they have LT on their campus.  I have total oversight and control of the service. I plan my own worship and even tweak or cut creative elements I am given if I do not think they connect with our service. I am not required to do ANYTHING that I do not feel connects with or is in the best interest of my congregation. I believe the success of a multi-site in our style depends on the Campus Pastor.  If he is truly given the opportunity to shepherd and lead that campus, what a great opportunity for a young pastor to learn and grow under the leadership of a more seasoned Pastor! Not franchising here - investing to lead others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Worship Arts Director on a multi-site campus, I think I can offer some interesting insight into this discussion.  It has been my experience that no multi-site is the same. Our model is very different from many I know.  Our Campus Pastor IS the pastor of our congregation&#8230;He teaches 8 to 10 times a year live on our campus.  He is a part of the teaching team (4 total) that do speak via video. Our Senior Pastor looks to our Campus Pastor to provide leadership, vision, and pastoral care to our campus&#8230;we are not here to push buttons. We are the only regional campus of the original campus so when we say &#8220;We are one-church-two locations&#8221; , we say it from the perspective of partnering to do outreach, global missions, small groups, leadership training and sharing resources. We reap the benefits of an existing church, but yet have the ability to tweak and make it work for our new congregation. We have leadership training on our campus with our leaders the same week they have LT on their campus.  I have total oversight and control of the service. I plan my own worship and even tweak or cut creative elements I am given if I do not think they connect with our service. I am not required to do ANYTHING that I do not feel connects with or is in the best interest of my congregation. I believe the success of a multi-site in our style depends on the Campus Pastor.  If he is truly given the opportunity to shepherd and lead that campus, what a great opportunity for a young pastor to learn and grow under the leadership of a more seasoned Pastor! Not franchising here &#8211; investing to lead others.</p>
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		<title>By: The Mom-and-Pop Church (Part 1)</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2180</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mom-and-Pop Church (Part 1)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2180</guid>
		<description>[...] good to the universal church. But anyone can criticize. Fellow missionary blogger Guy Muse recently reminded me of my commitment to balance criticism with positive alternative ideas. Lest I be lumped in with the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] good to the universal church. But anyone can criticize. Fellow missionary blogger Guy Muse recently reminded me of my commitment to balance criticism with positive alternative ideas. Lest I be lumped in with the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: stepchild</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>stepchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2132</guid>
		<description>Guy,
Please look for my next post (tentative title: &quot;The Church that Jesus Planted&quot;) for my suggestion of a more missional approach to church. Thanks for asking. I never want to be the guy who criticizes others and never proposes ideas for change.

&lt;strong&gt;EDIT:&lt;/strong&gt; Er, my next next post. I just cross-posted &quot;Think Like A Missionary&quot; from &lt;a href= &quot;http://contexting.typepad.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Contexting&lt;/a&gt;. I thought it did a good job of introducing the &quot;Church that Jesus Planted&quot; post.
Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy,<br />
Please look for my next post (tentative title: &#8220;The Church that Jesus Planted&#8221;) for my suggestion of a more missional approach to church. Thanks for asking. I never want to be the guy who criticizes others and never proposes ideas for change.</p>
<p><strong>EDIT:</strong> Er, my next next post. I just cross-posted &#8220;Think Like A Missionary&#8221; from <a href= "http://contexting.typepad.com" rel="nofollow">Contexting</a>. I thought it did a good job of introducing the &#8220;Church that Jesus Planted&#8221; post.<br />
Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Camel Rider</title>
		<link>http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/comment-page-1/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>Camel Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2008/09/17/multi-site-church-is-bad-missiology/#comment-2124</guid>
		<description>Good post.  I share your same concerns and really wonder if the results are what we think they are.  I liked your response to Mark Batterson (which by the way, I like alot)...what are they being saved into.  What is their concept of church?  How do you have someone sensitive to the Spirits move in a service....from across town?

It&#039;s interesting to me...all around the world churches are becoming smaller, less professional and more organic and yet in the US we&#039;ve managed to turn them into franchises.  Are we missing it again?  Are we taking the easy way out?  It&#039;s alot easier to run some cable then to disciple and train new leaders.
Camel Rider</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post.  I share your same concerns and really wonder if the results are what we think they are.  I liked your response to Mark Batterson (which by the way, I like alot)&#8230;what are they being saved into.  What is their concept of church?  How do you have someone sensitive to the Spirits move in a service&#8230;.from across town?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to me&#8230;all around the world churches are becoming smaller, less professional and more organic and yet in the US we&#8217;ve managed to turn them into franchises.  Are we missing it again?  Are we taking the easy way out?  It&#8217;s alot easier to run some cable then to disciple and train new leaders.<br />
Camel Rider</p>
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