Comments on: An Oxford and a Pair of Dockers http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/ Let's give the Commission back to the church. Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:48:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ewinwe http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-895 ewinwe Mon, 28 May 2007 07:21:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-895 this is so kewl! actually bringing up an issue that i'm dealing with myself!<br/><br/>i try to dress the part for the work i do. here in WE, that usually means jeans and a t-shirt, but could also mean capris and a button down. being a 40-something guy, it could also mean a suit (gag) but as all i have is an american-cut suit, and none of the field-parity to purchase an italian job, i'm pretty much not going to go with a suit at all.<br/><br/>swim suits are something different ...<br/><br/>recently, there was a huge story in the local german papers about an american guy who thought that all germans walked about in their "adam suit" all the time, so he made it his mission to do the same. he was arrested and fined 200 euro for indecent exposure (story here: <a HREF="http://uk.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUKL2245467620070522?feedType=RSS" REL="nofollow">Reuters Oddly Enough</a>).<br/><br/>actually, my wife has had the most worries about the clothing - having to buy almost a completely new wardrobe just to fit in. not prada, nor anything overly expensive, just good old C&A or H&M. still, it is a pain. this is so kewl! actually bringing up an issue that i’m dealing with myself!

i try to dress the part for the work i do. here in WE, that usually means jeans and a t-shirt, but could also mean capris and a button down. being a 40-something guy, it could also mean a suit (gag) but as all i have is an american-cut suit, and none of the field-parity to purchase an italian job, i’m pretty much not going to go with a suit at all.

swim suits are something different …

recently, there was a huge story in the local german papers about an american guy who thought that all germans walked about in their “adam suit” all the time, so he made it his mission to do the same. he was arrested and fined 200 euro for indecent exposure (story here: Reuters Oddly Enough).

actually, my wife has had the most worries about the clothing – having to buy almost a completely new wardrobe just to fit in. not prada, nor anything overly expensive, just good old C&A or H&M. still, it is a pain.

]]> By: stepchild http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-890 stepchild Fri, 25 May 2007 17:38:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-890 Publius,<br/>I'm not sure. It's pretty often that I hear about how the clothing here is "immodest" or "revealing," so I guess that for many of them, it's a "moral" issue.<br/><br/>Men who import their favorite clothing seem to do it because it's cheaper and more comfortable.<br/><br/>Just for clarification: usually it's the women who wear the American Mom jeans. Publius,
I’m not sure. It’s pretty often that I hear about how the clothing here is “immodest” or “revealing,” so I guess that for many of them, it’s a “moral” issue.

Men who import their favorite clothing seem to do it because it’s cheaper and more comfortable.

Just for clarification: usually it’s the women who wear the American Mom jeans.

]]> By: Publius http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-889 Publius Fri, 25 May 2007 16:23:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-889 Just curious - do your colleagues wear American mom jeans because they're more comfortable, out of a personal sense of modesty, or in order to conform to the corporate culture (not that there's anything wrong with that)? Just curious – do your colleagues wear American mom jeans because they’re more comfortable, out of a personal sense of modesty, or in order to conform to the corporate culture (not that there’s anything wrong with that)?

]]> By: stepchild http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-888 stepchild Fri, 25 May 2007 15:11:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-888 The modesty concern is why many of my colleagues pack sixteen pairs of their favorite (high-waisted, loose-fit) jeans and four years worth of granny-panties. The clothes sold in Western European shops are too tight, short, and low-cut by American Christian subculture standards. The modesty concern is why many of my colleagues pack sixteen pairs of their favorite (high-waisted, loose-fit) jeans and four years worth of granny-panties. The clothes sold in Western European shops are too tight, short, and low-cut by American Christian subculture standards.

]]> By: knnuki http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-887 knnuki Fri, 25 May 2007 11:52:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-887 Dude, you are so back. I like to think that my six weeks of non-stop chanting ("We Want Stepchild! We Want Stepchild!") had something to do with it. Dude, you are so back. I like to think that my six weeks of non-stop chanting (“We Want Stepchild! We Want Stepchild!”) had something to do with it.

]]> By: Watchman http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-886 Watchman Fri, 25 May 2007 11:02:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-886 let me whip my one trick pony again and say that this is yet another issue of morality that has been treated as an issue of faith. Morality always follows faith, not vice versa. It seems to me that regardless of the morality of the culture, the missionary cannot use things like clothing as the starting point for the conversation. Even if the university students walked around campus naked, is that the missionary's first concern? For the sake of the Good News, Could Deanna (or anyone else) wear a tube top and short shorts, or even less, if she did so by faith, even though her morality might dictate otherwise? let me whip my one trick pony again and say that this is yet another issue of morality that has been treated as an issue of faith. Morality always follows faith, not vice versa. It seems to me that regardless of the morality of the culture, the missionary cannot use things like clothing as the starting point for the conversation. Even if the university students walked around campus naked, is that the missionary’s first concern? For the sake of the Good News, Could Deanna (or anyone else) wear a tube top and short shorts, or even less, if she did so by faith, even though her morality might dictate otherwise?

]]> By: Deanna http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-885 Deanna Fri, 25 May 2007 05:53:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-885 Great topic for me since I work with European university students. When it gets hot, the clothes come off. And my perception is that it's not very sensual, it's more practical. What about the definition of modesty in a culture where sexual standards have gone so far out there, that what is sexual to us (American SB Christians) isn't even arousing anymore to a population immersed in it? I"m not sure there is a cross-cultural standard for modesty. That being said, I'm still not wearing tube tops and short shorts, even if it is "OK" by my new culture's standard. Great topic for me since I work with European university students. When it gets hot, the clothes come off. And my perception is that it’s not very sensual, it’s more practical. What about the definition of modesty in a culture where sexual standards have gone so far out there, that what is sexual to us (American SB Christians) isn’t even arousing anymore to a population immersed in it? I”m not sure there is a cross-cultural standard for modesty. That being said, I’m still not wearing tube tops and short shorts, even if it is “OK” by my new culture’s standard.

]]> By: BJ http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-884 BJ Thu, 24 May 2007 13:43:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-884 Our fellow workers in Africa (and on the beaches of Western Europe) would perhaps be better equipped to answer the question regarding women not wearing tops and how they have dealt with it. Western workers should not try to fit in to that extent though regarding dress (or lack of). I do think modesty can be a subjective perception (it’s ok to go without a top but never ever show one’s knees), and it is unhelpful for workers to mandate changes. My experience regarding my personal life and in working with new believers is that the Holy Spirit will bring about correction when it is needed at the exact right time. Our fellow workers in Africa (and on the beaches of Western Europe) would perhaps be better equipped to answer the question regarding women not wearing tops and how they have dealt with it. Western workers should not try to fit in to that extent though regarding dress (or lack of). I do think modesty can be a subjective perception (it’s ok to go without a top but never ever show one’s knees), and it is unhelpful for workers to mandate changes. My experience regarding my personal life and in working with new believers is that the Holy Spirit will bring about correction when it is needed at the exact right time.

]]> By: stepchild http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-883 stepchild Thu, 24 May 2007 08:18:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-883 BJ,<br/>Thanks for your thoughts. <br/><br/>You said that "A woman wearing a tight, short skirt and low-cut top would be in violation of biblical principles of modesty even if such attire is considered acceptable by the national population."<br/><br/>How would you apply this idea to a culture in which the women do not wear tops at all? <br/><br/>Extra parity- that's great! I can see it in the budget now: "Account 955: Field clothing allowance- Handbags"<br/><br/>Brittany,<br/>Right. This subject carries over into "should those who minister to bikers wear leather?" and "What about those who work with punk rockers? <br/>But please, stop looking for real-world examples of what I talk about here.<br/> <br/>Kidding... BJ,
Thanks for your thoughts.

You said that “A woman wearing a tight, short skirt and low-cut top would be in violation of biblical principles of modesty even if such attire is considered acceptable by the national population.”

How would you apply this idea to a culture in which the women do not wear tops at all?

Extra parity- that’s great! I can see it in the budget now: “Account 955: Field clothing allowance- Handbags”

Brittany,
Right. This subject carries over into “should those who minister to bikers wear leather?” and “What about those who work with punk rockers?
But please, stop looking for real-world examples of what I talk about here.

Kidding…

]]> By: Brittany http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/comment-page-1/#comment-882 Brittany Wed, 23 May 2007 19:55:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2007/05/19/an-oxford-and-a-pair-of-dockers/#comment-882 Prada? I'm just trying to get the RVA folks to embrace flip flops and tats! When flip flops have appeared in the White House but not the Monument building, then we have a problem. What about my demographic? My peeps? My former boss threatened to enforce the "no visible tats" rule at RVA until I told her my solution was to grow leg hair in that one particular spot to obscure said tat. She eventually dropped her complaint :) Prada? I’m just trying to get the RVA folks to embrace flip flops and tats! When flip flops have appeared in the White House but not the Monument building, then we have a problem. What about my demographic? My peeps? My former boss threatened to enforce the “no visible tats” rule at RVA until I told her my solution was to grow leg hair in that one particular spot to obscure said tat. She eventually dropped her complaint :)

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