um yeah…i’m secretly working on bibleman scripts right now!!! i’ve got a great one where bibleman catches one of his helpers on the internet reading a ‘blog … what a predicament!

bibleman is very very scary. that whole mask thingy really worries me … and what is with the weaponry???

sigh … i miss davey and goliath

(serious note – perish the thought of me working for tommy nelson. my boss ain’t in nashville…)

I have no idea what your friend should do. I really hope I don’t sound like someone who thinks he has all the answers. I think I’ve only got two or three answers, actually. But the situation you share speaks perfectly to what I was getting at in this post.

Firstly, I think that any child (or adult, for that matter) who is in danger, physically or otherwise, should be taken out of that dangerous situation, regardless of his/her spiritual state. If a kid is being abused, or if a friend is abusing drugs, I believe we have an obligation to intervene, whether they are believers or not.

I sympathize with your friend’s situation. Ministry to troubled inner-city youth can be very difficult. That said, the question you pose is a great real-life example of a missionary serving as spiritual life-support until the Father brings about real change to that community.

What I’m questioning here is the notion that this environment (albeit terrible and ungodly) makes it impossible for these kids to grow to maturity in their faith. Sure it will take longer. Yes, these kids will continue to be exposed to dangerous sin and temptation. But I would encourage your friend to continue discipling this group of youth right where they are. Maybe the 15 kids will struggle for a long time, but in the end they, together with their community, will have seen how the good news is relevant to their situation, and has power over the evils in their everyday lives. I believe that the gospel has the power to grow life in the same soil God chose to create that life.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the idea is ridiculous. Maybe I’m “almost right.”

i have a friend who works with troubled youth in western europe. she lives in a ghetto and throughout a 3 year ministry has seen about 15 youths come to know god. her biggest struggle is their environment. they are constantly surrounded by drugs, sex, violence and insane parents. their emotional maturity level makes it very difficult for them to fight against the most basic influences in their lives–their parents and their friends. they don’t have the social, mental, or emotional tools that functional teenagers have to make wise decisions. as a result, only 1 of the 15 has a stable walk with god.

how would you counsel my friend? i mean honestly. i don’t have the answers for her. i just know that the environment that these kids are living in is literally killing them. must we consider maturity levels when we ask ourselves if someone can remain in their pre-christ world? what exceptions are valid ones to the your belief in leaving new christians in their natural habitat?

Again, as I mentioned in your last post, I think we convert people and then expect them to become moral, not full of faith. Can drug-guy and rave-guy walk by faith? Do we have evidence that Rahab quit being a ho, though she was saved out of Jericho?

You ask whether I’d encourage this new believer to continue going to trance parties. I don’t think I would, but neither would I discourage it.

To me, it seems that when a person gets saved, he is faced with the challenge of making sense of his old life now that he is a new person. There are some things that a new believer cannot continue to do, some that he must start doing, and many, many things that he may continue doing, but now with a different motivation and purpose.

Since I’m the only other believer this guy knows, he’d probably not think twice about going to these parties unless the Holy Spirit told him otherwise.

Thanks for your comment, and for this discussion!

Just hearing about him makes my guts twinge with conviction.

Kidding…

ewinwe,
Asking me to comment on a scenario like the one you mention sounds like a trap. Are you in any way affiliated with the Bibleman franchise?

Seriously, I think the situation you describe happens all the time in churches everywhere. They have tons of food at their pot-lucks, they “share” intimate third-hand details about other peoples’ situations in their prayer meetings, and they allow pretty girls to attend. Church isn’t safe for anyone who struggles with self-control!

Guy,
Great thoughts you share, thanks. I guess in my post I was thinking through what you call “churching” with these people who don’t fit into any existing Christian fellowship. I love what you say (your last paragraph) about it being discipleship, and I agree. I guess what I’m questioning is this line:

“New born believers without community of other believers will generally flounder and likely be swallowed up by their previous world.”