Comments on: Degrees of separation (from Jesus) http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/ Let's give the Commission back to the church. Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:48:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Missions Misunderstood » Blog Archive » People Group Advocacy http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-26453 Missions Misunderstood » Blog Archive » People Group Advocacy Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:17:29 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-26453 [...] physical, of the group. They present statistics demonstrating their “unreachedness” and relative separation from [...] [...] physical, of the group. They present statistics demonstrating their “unreachedness” and relative separation from [...]

]]> By: Missions Misunderstood » Blog Archive » People Group Advocacy http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-26452 Missions Misunderstood » Blog Archive » People Group Advocacy Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:17:29 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-26452 [...] physical, of the group. They present statistics demonstrating their “unreachedness” and relative separation from [...] [...] physical, of the group. They present statistics demonstrating their “unreachedness” and relative separation from [...]

]]> By: EW http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-304 EW Thu, 04 May 2006 20:05:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-304 Brit,<br/>Obedience to the call got me over here (you kinda have to be obedient to get through the process) but it was/is the knowledge that this is the greatest adventure of my life that keeps me going here. I want to live my life here as a witness to my Creator, and I know that if I am doing what he wants me to do, it is out of obedience...but I have to say, it is FUN! The moment it stops being fun, it becomes just another job...<br/>stepchild...i don't know how the subject of seminary came up either, but i guess it falls in the 'obedience' category at this point };-> Brit,
Obedience to the call got me over here (you kinda have to be obedient to get through the process) but it was/is the knowledge that this is the greatest adventure of my life that keeps me going here. I want to live my life here as a witness to my Creator, and I know that if I am doing what he wants me to do, it is out of obedience…but I have to say, it is FUN! The moment it stops being fun, it becomes just another job…
stepchild…i don’t know how the subject of seminary came up either, but i guess it falls in the ‘obedience’ category at this point };->

]]> By: Brittany http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-287 Brittany Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:17:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-287 Hey - don't blame me for this discussion, I just raised the question :)<br/><br/>My first year of college I met a professor who previously served in Africa with the IMB. I told him of my passion to serve overseas and that part of me wanted to ditch college and find a way over the ocean to start serving immediately. He told me, "It's people like you who go to the mission field and actually do more harm than good. Stay here, get educated, learn how to think for yourself, and then pray about whether you should go."<br/><br/>For better or worse, I took his advice. More than anything, college taught me to think for myself (much like what charliemac said). Yet I wonder what would have happened had I run with my passion rather than tempered it with rationale.<br/><br/>I love all our servants overseas, but so often I see people coming over because they are being obedient to the call - yet they lack a certain zeal about what they are doing. Isn't life, whether here or there, supposed to be an adventure of joy rather than an exercise in obedience? Hey – don’t blame me for this discussion, I just raised the question :)

My first year of college I met a professor who previously served in Africa with the IMB. I told him of my passion to serve overseas and that part of me wanted to ditch college and find a way over the ocean to start serving immediately. He told me, “It’s people like you who go to the mission field and actually do more harm than good. Stay here, get educated, learn how to think for yourself, and then pray about whether you should go.”

For better or worse, I took his advice. More than anything, college taught me to think for myself (much like what charliemac said). Yet I wonder what would have happened had I run with my passion rather than tempered it with rationale.

I love all our servants overseas, but so often I see people coming over because they are being obedient to the call – yet they lack a certain zeal about what they are doing. Isn’t life, whether here or there, supposed to be an adventure of joy rather than an exercise in obedience?

]]> By: CharlieMac http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-286 CharlieMac Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:09:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-286 I have come to understand that the purpose of any higher education is multi-faceted. The learner must not only learn exactly how to perform within a chosen field, but also how to think and reason. Building confidence in one's ability to do a particular job is also important. If seminary had not built that base of knowledge, discernment and confidence, I wonder how many would ever take that first missionary appointment?<br/>Very few in any profession ever learn exactly what they need in order to do the job really well in school. We just "think" we do. Actually getting "where the rubber meets the road" is really the best teacher. The formal stuff just helps prepare for the real "education." If we literally did what Jesus commanded, we would "save" all the lost in our town, then the neighoring town, county, state, country, before we ever set foot on foreign soil. But we know that would not work in the "real" world. All Christians would still be in Jerusalem trying to make it a "Christian City". I have come to understand that the purpose of any higher education is multi-faceted. The learner must not only learn exactly how to perform within a chosen field, but also how to think and reason. Building confidence in one’s ability to do a particular job is also important. If seminary had not built that base of knowledge, discernment and confidence, I wonder how many would ever take that first missionary appointment?
Very few in any profession ever learn exactly what they need in order to do the job really well in school. We just “think” we do. Actually getting “where the rubber meets the road” is really the best teacher. The formal stuff just helps prepare for the real “education.” If we literally did what Jesus commanded, we would “save” all the lost in our town, then the neighoring town, county, state, country, before we ever set foot on foreign soil. But we know that would not work in the “real” world. All Christians would still be in Jerusalem trying to make it a “Christian City”.

]]> By: stepchild http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-285 stepchild Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:09:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-285 Yeah, I'm not sure how we got into talking about seminary... oh, yeah. Thanks, Brittany. <br/><br/>knnuki, <br/>I think you're right about the fact that the IMB can't (shouldn't) do everything that people feel "called" to do. I guess my problem is when the organization changes what we "do" and don't "do" so regularly that we end up with people on the field that don't get our full support. <br/><br/>David,<br/>The subjective nature of "calling" makes it difficult to rely on for strategic decisions. But I don't think that means we should map out a global strategy based on "lostness" and then try to fill it in with personnel that may or may not fit that strategy. (I understand that you weren't saying that, I'm just thinking through your comment.) <br/><br/>Thanks everyone, for a good discussion here. Yeah, I’m not sure how we got into talking about seminary… oh, yeah. Thanks, Brittany.

knnuki,
I think you’re right about the fact that the IMB can’t (shouldn’t) do everything that people feel “called” to do. I guess my problem is when the organization changes what we “do” and don’t “do” so regularly that we end up with people on the field that don’t get our full support.

David,
The subjective nature of “calling” makes it difficult to rely on for strategic decisions. But I don’t think that means we should map out a global strategy based on “lostness” and then try to fill it in with personnel that may or may not fit that strategy. (I understand that you weren’t saying that, I’m just thinking through your comment.)

Thanks everyone, for a good discussion here.

]]> By: knnuki http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-284 knnuki Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:57:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-284 I cannot believe I'm wieghing in with my opinion on this. I agree with nearly all of you about the absurdity of measuring lostness, about the wisest use of the organization's limited finance and personnel and about the subjective-but-essential nature of "calling." I think "calling" is a funny word, by the way: I would just say "God is leading me to do this or I'm convinced before Him I shouldn't do that." Calling is too... christianese. <br/><br/>What about this? God is doing things - and "calls" people to do things - that our organization may not be involved in. Why? because His kingdom is big and certainly way bigger than our little corner of it. Might He legitimately call people to do things which do not involve us? Might our most spiritual answer for people who say "God has called me to do such and so" be to answer by saying "then you must obey Him and we'll trust Him to provide what's necessary for that." Whether it's with us or not is a secondary (or possibly a non) issue. <br/><br/>My two cents' worth. I cannot believe I’m wieghing in with my opinion on this. I agree with nearly all of you about the absurdity of measuring lostness, about the wisest use of the organization’s limited finance and personnel and about the subjective-but-essential nature of “calling.” I think “calling” is a funny word, by the way: I would just say “God is leading me to do this or I’m convinced before Him I shouldn’t do that.” Calling is too… christianese.

What about this? God is doing things – and “calls” people to do things – that our organization may not be involved in. Why? because His kingdom is big and certainly way bigger than our little corner of it. Might He legitimately call people to do things which do not involve us? Might our most spiritual answer for people who say “God has called me to do such and so” be to answer by saying “then you must obey Him and we’ll trust Him to provide what’s necessary for that.” Whether it’s with us or not is a secondary (or possibly a non) issue.

My two cents’ worth.

]]> By: David Rogers http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-283 David Rogers Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:17:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-283 I would say it's all about stewardship (both the questions about comparative lostness and education). One day God is going to call us to account on how we "invested" the "talents" that he entrusted us with. And I believe there is good biblical warrant for talking about differing degrees of strategic investment of talents. "Calling" is a very subjective thing. While I think we definitely need to take into account someone's sense of calling from God, the church (or at least some group halfway legitimately representative of the church) also has a responsibility for helping to guide people in the interpretation and application of that calling. I would say it’s all about stewardship (both the questions about comparative lostness and education). One day God is going to call us to account on how we “invested” the “talents” that he entrusted us with. And I believe there is good biblical warrant for talking about differing degrees of strategic investment of talents. “Calling” is a very subjective thing. While I think we definitely need to take into account someone’s sense of calling from God, the church (or at least some group halfway legitimately representative of the church) also has a responsibility for helping to guide people in the interpretation and application of that calling.

]]> By: Rede Vida Mais Café http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-282 Rede Vida Mais Café Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:56:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-282 I really enjoyed seminary. I thought it was a fantastic--stretching--and growing time. On the other hand---I was in an environment with some highly creative people that challenged me in great ways. <br/>With that said--I don't know how much the seminary experience prepared me for this. What I WOULD say is that it was a wonderful lesson in discipline, perservance, and submission. <br/>I do agree that Paul was a very educated man. That does not mean that all of the leaders had the same background. It reminds me of something I recently heard: "God intentionally makes us with weaknesses so that we would need the body." That is not the mindset of our culture. Our culture tells us to go to a workshop so that we can be great at all things. Our culture says that everyone IS a church planter. Our culture, while beginning to open to new ideas, tends to lean in one direction on what a new church looks and feels like. I'm not being critical of any of this. I just wonder if we, at times, keep people from doing what they were meant to do because we are more interested in seeing they jump through the right hoops so they look and sound like everyone else. I really enjoyed seminary. I thought it was a fantastic–stretching–and growing time. On the other hand—I was in an environment with some highly creative people that challenged me in great ways.
With that said–I don’t know how much the seminary experience prepared me for this. What I WOULD say is that it was a wonderful lesson in discipline, perservance, and submission.
I do agree that Paul was a very educated man. That does not mean that all of the leaders had the same background. It reminds me of something I recently heard: “God intentionally makes us with weaknesses so that we would need the body.” That is not the mindset of our culture. Our culture tells us to go to a workshop so that we can be great at all things. Our culture says that everyone IS a church planter. Our culture, while beginning to open to new ideas, tends to lean in one direction on what a new church looks and feels like. I’m not being critical of any of this. I just wonder if we, at times, keep people from doing what they were meant to do because we are more interested in seeing they jump through the right hoops so they look and sound like everyone else.

]]> By: Theophilus http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-281 Theophilus Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:36:00 +0000 http://missionsmisunderstood.com/2006/04/23/degrees-of-separation-from-jesus/#comment-281 I think the big issue with seminary is that it has been more knowledge based rather than obedience based. I think this is why we have these huge "theological" debates, yet baptisms are declining in our stateside churches. This is where mentoring on the field can be an improvement over academia. Some seminary programs, like the 2+2 programs are meant to be the best of both, but the truth is we are rather spotty (i.e not very good) at mentoring young and/or new Ms but we complain when they are not ready to go "straight out of the box". I think the big issue with seminary is that it has been more knowledge based rather than obedience based. I think this is why we have these huge “theological” debates, yet baptisms are declining in our stateside churches. This is where mentoring on the field can be an improvement over academia. Some seminary programs, like the 2+2 programs are meant to be the best of both, but the truth is we are rather spotty (i.e not very good) at mentoring young and/or new Ms but we complain when they are not ready to go “straight out of the box”.

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